Comments on: Dustin Lance Black Banned From College Campus

by: salsaconqueso

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 23:54:34 +0000

I guess to summarize what I am saying, I will say this: We’re not advocating that different of ideas. What I am saying is that while the administration may have censored him for the wrong reasons, him coming to hope would not have necessarily advanced the local GLBT movement on campus because it would have created negative tension among those who are not as progressive as you or I. Only an atmosphere where both sides feel safe would create positive tension, which would truly lead to change on this campus.
Also: some personal advice. Whether you transfer or not is out of my control, but while you’re there try to make the best of your situation. I am sure that if you get involved with a core group of people who maybe don’t fit the Hope stereotype, your experience would be more positive.

by: salsaconqueso

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 23:54:19 +0000

You see, the area surrounding Hope College is just as conservative as Hope. I completely understand the atmosphere. Calling Hope a glorified community college is a bit much though, it’s position on Gays is contemptible. However, that doesn’t make it a glorified community college. The ways in which it excels far outweigh the ways it which it is set back.
Moving on, I fully understand that people get into Michigan who do not deserve it. A family friend of mine is simply unintelligent, (4.0 w/o any honors or ap classes, and a 23 on the ACT) got into UofM

by: salsaconqueso

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 23:53:59 +0000

It’s funny how you backed off on over half of what I said. You also mistake my response for intimidation, when frankly I just hate reading things with which I disagree and not responding to it. My point is the STUDENTS are recognizing the GLBT community – this is indisputably different from many other colleges. Wheaton’s mission statement ends with “value[ing] a diverse world.” Calvin’s mission statement advocates, “renewal in the academy, church, and society.” Both of which sound like a poor attempt at progressivism towards which they are not working, and Hopes students are. That is my only argument. Moving on, YES this type of tension does bring progress, but I am saying that speaker coming to HOPE’s campus wouldn’t have bread progress because it wouldn’t have created flexible tension. Rather, it would create inflexible tension where both sides wouldn’t listen to the other side. Also, I never said that I was a pacifist. The only time I said pacifism was in reference to AJ Muste. I just said that discourse was the means by which this conflict would be solved. I also do not advocate nothing. I advocate constructive tension. Don’t put words in my mouth. Furthermore, I am native to Holland. I not only am sensitive to the plight of these individuals, but also am not so far removed from the situation.

by: notsosoft

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:24:50 +0000

And English, you say? Hahaha. Let's not go there. I have reason to believe I have high ability in that area as opposed to math and science, and let's just say it's statistically significant. But I won't use "statistics," because that would go against my personal beliefs. Also, trust me when I say that I have friends who are VERY religious. I see why religion is so necessary in today's society, I believe true Christians who treat others with nurturing kindness are what Christianity is all about, and I know and appreciate those individuals: I am not okay when that bars someone from conveying a truth. DLB is even all about reconciling the gay community and the Christian community. "Too opinionated" and "polarizing" doesn't even apply to him.

by: notsosoft

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:16:27 +0000

Also, on that note I will apologize for one thing: Calling you out for using the fact that you graduated from U-M. But when you look at your response, you should be able to see why I would respond that way, especially when my arguments are perfectly articulate.
But on that note, I've had middle-school teachers who graduated from U-M, and I have no idea how they would have been admitted over a friend of mine (3.9 GPA, 4 on Calculus AP, high school athletics, 34 on his ACT) who was rejected. Michigan, while being a VERY respectable institution, is quite the machine. You're admitted on a point system. Numbers seem to mean more than the holistic, logical evaluation. Hence affirmative action being such a huge factor, but that is a whole other debate. Let's NOT even go there. Basically, admission to U-M is not a tool for anything. It does not reflect intelligence, and you should know that having attended. You have your "I don't know how you got in" admits, and you have your "I got a 36 on the ACT" kids and everyone in between.

by: notsosoft

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:09:38 +0000

Only your personal agenda, the agenda of an individual who grew up not having to work for any of your privileges. And English, you say? Hahaha. Let's not go there. I have reason to believe I have high ability in that area as opposed to math and science, and let's just say it's statistically significant. But I won't use "statistics," because that would go against my personal beliefs. Also, trust me when I say that I have friends who are VERY religious. I see why religion is so necessary in today's society, I believe true Christians who treat others with nurturing kindness are what Christianity is all about, and I know and appreciate those individuals: I am not okay when that bars someone from conveying a truth. Jesus was a social activist. He was all about going to the oppressed and healing them. DLB is even all about reconciling the gay community and the Christian community. "Too opinionated" and "polarizing" doesn't even apply to him.

by: notsosoft

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:08:38 +0000

Also, you come back at me with a personal vendetta. That's not the way to do things. I came across in that manner because you came at me with one and it was reflexive much like your super-long responses, which makes me laugh because seriously? You're not the one dealing with this institution. You're far away in your little insulated community of self-righteousness. And any institution that tries to stifle its students while claiming to be something it's not is contemptible and a glorified community college. You may as well go anywhere else. And I mention time periods because as you know times have changed. You don't have much sensitivity for the plight of individuals.

by: notsosoft

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:07:02 +0000

And how dare you tell me I'm one against the world.
You're only upset because I disagree with your patronizing of institutions that are so clearly in the wrong. Most of the world isn't like that, and just because you're from the east coast has no bearing with me or anyone else. I'm not victimizing you, but clearly I'm making you uncomfortable and that's fantastic. That's the only way people become sure of themselves. And if you really care about that movement, which you don't seem to care for (more about yourself and your personal vendettas) you might actually do something. Also, I won't try to force statistics that many might use to back up their supposed intelligence, because, well, I'm not like you. ALSO, since you're a small business owner, what qualifies you to assess debates? I'm just curious.

by: notsosoft

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:41:45 +0000

And obviously my tension is doing you a world of good, because it's actually making you think about what you're saying. The fact that you are even agreeing with the actual points I'm making while jumping on little things within the larger argument shows that really, you know I'm right. I totally don't mind if someone has an opposing viewpoint, as long as they have constructive reasons for it. However, you have no solid reasons. You are merely pacifying the proponents of the movement, not supporting. You're either for the movement or you're not. By doing nothing and labeling yourself an activist, you are an unfortunate setback.

by: notsosoft

Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:38:57 +0000

Re: justlove –
Funny how both of you are intimidated enough by the work of a "college freshman" to even bother responding. Vicious arguments have no age, ahem. I've used less vulgarity than you: oh, AND I did not call myself more intelligent than "hopestudent", you obviously assumed that. That was nowhere in my argument. But no, the COLLEGE is not recognizing the GLBT community. THAT'S the point.
ALSO, I did not even apply to U-M, because I wanted to get out of the Ann Arbor - Saline area having lived there for so long. Your bit about coming from an affluent family proves my point exactly - what an elitist attitude. Affluent family and high test scores mean little - It just means you can take tests well and you got lucky. And evangelist? Wow. An evangelist. My point exactly. And LOOK at who is ignorant of the REAL situation at hand! Wow, this is actually super funny.
I made several points that you were unable to see in your meticulous attention to facts that naively ignored the disgusting discrimination inherent in the current collegiate surroundings at Hope. And again, Wheaton and Calvin don't have mission statements emphasizing "openness and freedom". I obviously know what I'm fighting for, because I'm condemning you for antagonizing the pro-queer movement (of which I am an active member, having personal investment being queer myself) by claiming pacifism.